Confessions of a level 5 Cleric

Vaul

New member
Aug 4, 2026
8
4
3
Alright so continuing in the vain of the newcomers experience, I want to talk about being a Cleric on the server. I am at present ungeared. Just putting all cards on the table, I have a few items of course. But I’m far from having a good combo of gear for the server… as any new level 5 should be.

This article is also going to touch on several aspects of the established design of the server. Its also going to address the gap between “faithful adaptation” and video game Pathfinder.

I’m a long time NWNs player. I bought the game in 2002. So while your perfectly justified in the position that I don’t know the server well enough yet, I do wish to state I have been doing this a little while now. I mostly play Clerics because I am of the opinion that Clerics and their gods bring a very important religious element to a server. Though generally despised by many in the last few years, religion is a powerful source of motivation, roleplay, conflict, and narrative that when properly used can enrich a setting both in books, and in games like this one.

Clarity about Clerics
Mechanically the purpose of the Cleric class in NWNs is to be a support class for a party. The Cleric is a parties safety net. They provide healing for when you take too much damage, and they have the ability to remove various conditions you might become inflicted with. Finally a Cleric is a force multiplayer. However on this server none of these functions work.

Clerical Healing
Because of the Low AC on this server, the amount of damage a party presently takes in each battle completely exhaust all a clerics healing after the first encounter. One fight and all your healing spells would be needed to restore the party so it would be back to HQ to rest. However we have an abundance of healing on this server in the form of powerful potions which will generally restore a level 5 to near full health. The potions are cheap...ish? I use a lot I don’t want to say cheap. But the point is the Cleric is not needed for healing because of the abundance of healing potions.

Incidentally “healing” and “HP” are the two BIGGEST factors for server difficulty. Lower access to healing turns an adventure run into a war of attrition. Each hit even if minor wares you down, saps the parties resources a little more. And the dungeon crawl becomes a marathon of resource management. At least… in my opinion this is how it should be. Some servers like Arelith negate this with an abundance of healing items. Or the worse balance breaking item of all… +1 Regeneration. Which completely negates all attrition mechanics.

Clerical Wonder Cures
The second thing that is not working on this server are what I call Clerical Cures. By “cure” I mean all the Clerics restoration abilities. Now this is not quite as bad as the healing issue, but its an issue because Heals and Cures are competing for the same spell slots. This quickly becomes aggravated by the over abundance of “condition” effect that monsters inflict on players. I’m mostly talking Kobold’s because I have not seen the other yet.

Kobolds inflict the follow. Poison which leads to debuffs. Blindness which is uber powerful because you cannot even see or target anyone when you are blind. And energy drain which is strength damage. Once blinded your 100% helpless. And every time we have encountered a mage we seem to get hit with these, We get poisoned etc… the Cleric is ready for all these occurrences. But only once or twice. After that they are out of spells and your down to potions. With each encounter in the writ hitting you with all of these… the Cleric is good for maybe two fights at best before they are turned into nothing more than a second rate fighter.

Clerical Support
Clerics are not fighters, their combat abilities are only second rate. But Clerics are the best support class in the game! And they are ready to turn a good party into a GREAT Party! Except it seems on this server…

Normally they have prayers, and dooms to buff and debuff friends and enemies. But all of that is dependent upon those buffs staying on the party. A buff that does not last long is useless. At present all such buffs are 1 minuets a level. Now I’ve been told this is how it works in pathfinder Pen and Paper. But at this point I need to make a very very important point.

This is NOT Pen and Paper, this is a video game. A quick example of what I mean. If you and I were playing Pen and Paper and doing the Kobold Writ. We would not finish it in a single 5-6 hour game session. We would have an hour long Roleplay getting to the sewers, and then the fights would start. Each fight following in turn order would take 1 to 1.5 hours each. Each player taking their turn, choosing their action. Moving on the battle map. The DM moving the kobolds casting spells etc… Players not paying attention. Getting up for the bathroom etc…

Which means in 5-6 hours we would likely get through three fights at most.

Now.. in that same 5-6 hours online using the computer to do all that burdensome math for us, we could do 20-30 of these combat! Back to back encounter after encounter as long as the players can stay focused. But here comes the problem. Pen and Paper was not created for that many fights. The daily spell allowance is assuming your going to have 2-3 major encounters and then rest. Not 20 encounters between rests. There are just not enough spells.

What this means is that the Cleric does not actually function on most servers in their primary role as a healer and curer of conditions. They just don’t have enough spells to do that! Instead the Cleric mostly works on most servers as the buffer. Why? Because buff spell spells last the longest. A level two darkness spell will plunge an area into 50% concealment which is bad for the bad guys if you also have ultra vision. But that only works once.

But Bulls strength, Cats Grace, or Bears Endurance will last 20-30 minutes or longer on most servers! In terms of usefulness your talking getting bonuses for multiple combats instead of just a single battle. So those level 2 spell slots are far better used with Animal spells than something like Darkness spells.

Except not on this server… With the duration of those spells being 1 minuet per character level, a 5th level cleric can boost your strength for 5 minuets. That enough for one fight if there is any RP afterwards. And this is a roleplaying crowd I think. Players react to battles! (Great job people seriously!)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pyro7r34d

Vaul

New member
Aug 4, 2026
8
4
3
Clerical Conclusions
All of this is to say that Clerics are in a very bad place on this server as far as being useful. They are a great roleplay. But this is not a roleplay discussion per-say. This is about mechanics. Are clerics mechanically useful to a party? The answer is no.

A cleric cannot provide sufficient healing to a party above what individual potions carried can provide. In fact because the potions are so easily obtained and the AB bonus of monsters so high that you get hit so much and take a LOT of damage at level 5 your going to NEED a lot of healing. Potions completely negate the value of Clerics on this server.

Its the same for cures, A cleric at best is going to have 1-2 cure blind spells, or remove poison, or restoration spells. But your going to need 4-5 of each in the present encounter economy. That’s PER PLAYER! No cleric can support a party of 4 at those rates. Fortunately potions to the rescue again! Because of the number of times this happens you ether suffer through it, or you cure it with potions.

Buffing, seems largely pointless at low level. The cost of consuming a STR, DEX and CON potion for 3 minuets of boosting can only be justified for the finial boss. So this is one place potions don’t really answer the problem ether. But neither does the Cleric! The clerics spell last 5 minuets. That’s not an improvement. An extended spell (the only real option) does work better but 10 minutes is not really great. Two fights if no one is dragging their feet… and people do! But I would rather people drag their feet and roleplay than not!

Suggestions!
This is a suggestion thread. So I wish to offer two answers to this problem. The core issue is accuracy to Pathfinder lore meeting video game combat. If you insist on maintaining the Pathfinder design because that’s whats written in the books, then your not going to have Clerics on this server. A party would be FAR better served by Paladins who can fight and hit things, than clerics who cant heal enough, cant support enough, and cant cure enough to get you through 20+ fights.

Suggestion One: Longer Spells
An easy answer this. This would help the issue of Clerics keeping their buffing role. Give their spells longer duration above what the books say because those books were written for Pen and Paper to get you through 3 fights during a once a week game session. We are very obviously not playing under those conditions. With longer duration buffs in the 2-3 or 5 minuets a level would allow Clerics to maintain the typical buff class role they find on most server without making them over powered.

Suggestion Two: Better Spell Casting
This suggestion is in my opinion better, but harder to create. The real issues with Clerics, Sorcerers and Wizards...oh! And Druids… I always forget druids, are their daily spell limits. There are enough spells for 2-5 encounters. Assuming you tone down the monsters a little. (hint hint hint). But not for 20+ encounters which is how we as players WANT TO PLAY. We don’t really want less combat. We want MORE combat! I’m pretty sure I’m not the only person here who’s logging into to be a hero online after being a wuss all day in real life.

So what I am suggesting is spell lists that refresh over time. A first level spell is (and I’m making this up on the spot now) say a 5 minuet timer. After five minuets the spell will refresh and you can cast it again. The level 2’s are on a 10 minuet timer, and the higher the spell the longer the refresh timer. Maybe after level 4 they don’t refresh? Maybe there are new Meta Magic feats that make them refresh quicker. Or allow level 5 spells? These are just ideas!

This keeps the spells from being machine gun cast for infinite healing. But also means that you will be getting the spell back before the adventure is over. The higher level spells take longer to return. But your getting those vital lower level cures and heals back regularly enough to do real party support and make it so a part will actually want a cleric.

Doing this makes having a Cleric in the party a real MONEY saver! Because the clerics can help you save potions and recovery! Now people WANT MORE CLERICS! And will put up with their proselytizing… well… we can dream I guess.

Finial Thoughts
At present Clerics while roleplaying gems, are mechanically almost useless. They are poor fighters in comparison to full AB classes. They have modest HP pools on a server where low AC and high monster AB means a ton of damage is getting through to them. Which is just going to suck up their spells in selfish casts. But Clerics at the moment have mostly been replaced by cheap potions.

Who needs a cleric that takes 10+ years of theological training to make, when you can carry a case of red bull into a dungeon and get even better results!

If you made it this far thank you for taking the time to read this guys! I hope it helps.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pyro7r34d

Anaku

New member
Aug 2, 2026
2
1
3
I do have to agree, especially on the healing side of things, its the main reason I did not make a cleric even though i mainly play clerics. I would also like to put some input in as a sorcerer as well. While i have been having fun using claws I mainly chose to do such because you only get enough spells to really get you though 3ish encounters and this is compounded by cantrips not scaling and only ever doing 1d4 +1 ish dmg. with a bonus of a whopping 1 damage if your a draconic sorcerer using a matching element (no fire dmg cantrip by the way). This also has the added effect of a caster never being able to really do anything solo... while i am not saying you should be able to complete writs or quests solo it would be nice to be able to explore more than the safe zones as a caster.

Though your buffs do pause out of combat (this is not really explained and you only see it if you use the /effect list), unless it says round instead of men/level then it seems it does not pause. (at least from my experience)
 
Last edited:

mourningstar

New member
Aug 2, 2026
3
1
1
Many of your points are from a misunderstanding of how the server works. I'll point out a few.


Spells are paused when out of combat. That one minute of a buff lasts 10 combat rounds, no more, no less.

You can buff in the Lodge, go all the way to the Puddles, go into a dungeon, and still have Haste up because it's paused whenever you are not actively in combat, when it only lasts a 'minute', with your buff lasting 30 irl minutes.

Buffing is in fact at its STRONGEST at low level, because buffs do NOT stack with gear.

Bull's Strength at +4 at level 5 is the strongest it will ever be, because as people get +1 , +2 str gear, bull's strength will only give what they don't already have.

I will concede that I think the cleric spell list a bit anemic, but domain powers are there to help you specialize. A war cleric will be good on the front line. A healing cleric will be great as a healer.

Channel energy runs on Charisma. It's a rare cleric that takes Charisma.

But it's a cleric that focuses on healing. Which, if they had the Healing domain, would also give them heal spells in all their bonus domain slots, helping them not run out of healing.

A cleric cannot do everything in Pathfinder. You need to pick your domains and lean into them to be a master of something.

THAT'S where the real problem is right now - the domain selection. Domains in Pathfinder make you insanely good at things. For example, Knowledge and Trickery give you - every single knowledge skill as a class feat, all 3 rogue skills as class skills.

If you are playing a kno:trickery cleric, then your role is not healer, your role is not buffer, your role is not frontline, your role is 'telling the party the saves of your enemies, the weaknesses of your enemies, their CMD, everything you get from right click and examine them' because you have Every Knowledge and Know Everything, and passing kno:local checks to move between areas, as well as other miscellaneous knowledge things- similar to a bard. Your spell list also includes a lot of arcane information gathering tools.

Trickery lets you stealth around, gives you Bluff for feinting (turning your enemies flat-footed to support the rogue, although Feint doesn't seem to exist on this server...yet), gives you invisibility on the divine spell list, gives you a whole bunch of mirror images you can spam...

Additionally, once you get Extend Spell on this server, timers for buffs are essentially meaningless, IME.

Once more domains are coded, I think clerics will truly come into their own and shine. Just for now, many deities are forced to take wack combos because those are the only ones available to their god.
 

Pyro7r34d

Administrator
Staff member
Nov 22, 2022
16
2
3
Thanks again for posting in detail. I feel that there are several available solutions to your problems already. However I don't want to invalidate them. You have made it clear you're experienced in neverwinter nights. Even if I think that if there are solutions already available, the fact taht you haven't found them is a failure on my part to make the information available in a reasonable way. I think overall we've gotten a lot of feedback about how shocking it is to start our server.

For example it is meant to be easy for a player to acquire wands plenty. Having a steady supply of wands of cure light wounds would allow you to heal the party on a cleric -- but you have no way of knowing that coming in.
 

Vaul

New member
Aug 4, 2026
8
4
3
Well the buff duration being paused I do think answers my issue with spell duration. I was not aware of that when I posted this. I have since learned it, though I have not seen anything about it on the WIKI. Though I am still searching. So I withdraw this objection, this system answers the short spell durations quite nicely.

I still have major issues however with healing being Wand and Potion driven. Unless the Wands are Cleric only. The reason being if they are generally available to anyone like potions then it completely undermines the Cleric Class. No one needs a cleric for healing, and worse the healing domain becomes even more undermined because no one needs it. Furthermore potions of all kinds are available to buy which means half the cleric spells, and almost all the most common low level ones are available so no one needs a cleric to get access to those spells.

So the question then is. What is the Cleric Class for on this server? You don't need them for low level buffs, you don't need them to heal you. Why are they a desirable class to play apart from the religious roleplay. Again, I'm purely speaking about Clerics from a mechanical standpoint. Also the only healing wand I saw for sale was 4,000+ silver which was defiantly over my price range for the time being. But will get there eventually.
 

Hugolinus

New member
Jan 22, 2025
4
2
3
No one needs a cleric for healing, and worse the healing domain becomes even more undermined because no one needs it...

So the question then is. What is the Cleric Class for on this server? You don't need them for low level buffs, you don't need them to heal you...

In tabletop play of Pathfinder 1st Edition, a cleric is not needed to keep a party healthy. Alternatives for a primary healer include an Oracle (Life Mystery), Paladin (Hospitaler), Witch (Healing Hex), Alchemist (Chirurgeon), Druid, Shaman (Life Spirit), and more. Beyond this, it is even more common to instead rely on wands wielded by a partial divine caster or any class with a high Use Magic Device and thus forego the necessity of having a cleric. Without relying on a wand, Bards, Skalds, and Inquisitors can also function as secondary healers.

So what do clerics do in PF1e? Below are the thoughts of a few online guides on PF1e clerics.

TANK'S BIG HOLY BOOK OF CLERICS
-- Default cleric. Support caster on the edge of combat that can offer secondary melee combat
-- Battle cleric: Melee beast
-- Archer cleric: Part support cleric and part long range threat
-- Lord of undeath: Necromancers
-- Bad touch cleric: Debuffer and skirmisher
-- Pure caster cleric: Viable for any cleric regardless of stats other than Wisdom (14 minimum)

ILUZRY'S GUIDE TO PF1e CLERICS
-- Support: Buffs, healing via channel energy, status removal, domain abilities
-- Bad touch: Debuffs, status ailments for enemies, ability removal of enemies
-- Necromastery: Undead creation, undead empowerment, undead destruction
-- Planar powers: Alignment spells, banishment, summoning, communing

TSOFLI'S ULTIMATE PF CLERIC GUIDE (tips, not roles)
-- Not a healer: "The role of a party healer is a wasted one. Sure, you can be decent at it, but a dead enemy is an enemy that deals no damage. That is why this guide refers to 'Support' clerics rather than 'Healers.' Clerics make greater supporters, buffers, secondary tanks, and strikers when need be but they are not healers."
-- "Thou shalt learn to love the wand, scroll, and rod" : "The cleric, more than any other class, has a list filled with situational spells you would otherwise not grant the time of day to grace your spell slots." So use wands, scrolls, and rods for them.
-- You can't do it all: So be "the backbone on which the group is built on."
-- "Thou shalt not waste thy time with petty magics" : "Don't sweat the small spells, the minor buffs, or the tiniest numbers. Big numbers and positioning count for more than just throwing spells out there. You should already be throwing out your minutes long buffs long before the fight takes place anyway."
 
Last edited:

Hugolinus

New member
Jan 22, 2025
4
2
3
As a sidenote, the Cleric is widely considered to be a "Tier 1" class in Pathfinder 1st Edition based on a survey of several websites. A consistent short list of Tier 1 would be Wizard, Druid, and Cleric. A longer list would also include Arcanist, Witch, Shaman, and possibly other specialized class builds as well (all of which are full, prepared spellcasters). But Wizard, Druid, and Cleric are always the top 3 of Tier 1.

These are considered "Tier 1" because they "are good at solving nearly all problems" and "open up with strong combat spells backed up by utility, and then get massively stronger from there." (Giants in the Playground) They're versatile yet can potentially outperform compared to a specialized class. (MinMax)

If they're not showing their potential on GC yet, it is probably because many PF1e spells haven't been added for now.
 
Last edited:

Hugolinus

New member
Jan 22, 2025
4
2
3
I noticed this change on today's patch notes, Vaul.

**Server Patch Notes August 11th 2026**

- Updated (reduced) the caster level of healing potions available in shops, and added cure serious to shops.
- Modified cure healing spell scaling
```cs
Cure spells (and mass) now heal Xd8 + 1% of the target's maximum hp per caster level. Each spell still has the caster level cap.
When dealing damage to undead the % is instead 1d4 per caster level (up to the cap).
The total amount and the percentage IS increased by empower.
This change has been implemented to allow real non-item healing to be able to scale above item healing.
Cure Light 2d8+2% per caster level a max of 5 (10%)
Cure Moderate 3d8+2% per caster level a max of 10 (20%)
Cure Serious 4d8+2% per caster level a max of 15 (30%)
Cure Critical 5d8+2% per caster level a max of 20 (40%)
```
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pyro7r34d